Discussion:
INCIDENT ON HILL 192 (from my war diary)
(too old to reply)
Col. Edmund Burke
2014-11-27 17:26:08 UTC
Permalink
In early '68, we were cleaning out some buildings at Quy Nhon that had
been occupied by JAG; I found a transcript of a general court martial
from 1967; over the next few days, I read the factual account of the
murder of a Vietnamese civilian woman in what would become known as
"the incident on hill 192" and later rewritten into a fictional movie
titled "Casualties of War"..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_on_Hill_192
The Wiki page quotes heavily from the book: *Judge Advocates in
Vietnam: Army Lawyers in Southeast Asia, 1959-1975* (Borch, F.; 2003);
actually, the entire article is a simple copy & paste.
The event described in the book must have been derived from the movie
because it bears no resemblance to the facts of the case. The events
happened near My Tho in Binh Dinh province about 10 miles south of
what would later become LZ English. The immediate area is a heavily
populated agricultural valley. The book's account has the soldiers
kidnapping a woman from the village by force, tying her hands, and
proceeding to take her on a combat patrol for their sexual pleasure
over the next week or so. Borch obviously did not know the area and
didn't know what a combat patrol was.
A combat patrol leaving the My Tho area would not have departed on
foot. While the area was by no means safe, it was a heavily populated
rear area; the patrol would have been transported by ground vehicle or
helicopter into the general vicinity of their area of operation. The
immediate area was secured by ARVN forces. Even if they had departed
on foot, a five-man patrol leading a Vietnamese woman with her hands
tied would immediately have attracted a great deal of attention.
Borch's account (and the movie) has the soldiers executing the female
captive during an enemy engagement because they feared the enemy would
see the captive and report them; this account is patently absurd.
What actually happened was that the men were on guard duty in base
camp on 18 Nov 1966. They contracted for sexual services from a local
woman who came to their guard position by motorcycle that evening.
For whatever reason, they ended up killing the woman by blunt trauma;
she was neither shot nor stabbed as recorded in the Hollywood
depiction of the event. The next day, the woman was reported missing
to the local authorities by her acquaintances and/or family who knew
where she had gone; a subsequent search quickly located her body near
the soldiers' guard position.
The soldiers were placed under arrest and the pretrial investigation
proceeded from that point; the incident had stirred up quite a bit of
civil involvement by the Vietnamese authorities. No doubt, the First
Cavalry would have liked for the matter to have blown over; however,
that wasn't about to happen. The article 32 investigation was
concluded on 22 Jan 1968 which was about two months after the event;
this time line is perfectly consistent with any civilian grand jury
proceeding in a capital case. The trial was convened in Long Binh and
the men were convicted on 19 April 1968, five months to the day after
the woman's body was discovered. Since JAG was asking for the death
penalty, there is absolutely nothing unusual about such an
investigation and trial taking five months; actually, that's a fairly
short time period.
< QUOTE >
Pfc. Storeby initially reported the crime. At first, the chain of
command, including the company commander, took no action. Despite
threats against his life by the soldiers who took part in the rape and
murder, Storeby was determined to see the soldiers punished. His
persistence in reporting the crime to higher authorities eventually
resulted in general courts-martial against his four fellow squad
mates.
< /QUOTE >
Both the book and the movie (from which the book was obviously
derived) depict a deliberate and protracted cover-up attempt during
which time Pfc. Storeby fought valiantly for justice in the face of
death threats and attempts on his life. The fact is that Pfc. Storeby
was implicated in the crime; however, he turned "state's evidence"
quickly, thereby receiving only a special court martial. The
investigation and prosecution moved as quickly as any ever do; five
months from commission to conviction is an almost amazingly short time
line.
--
Don't take yerself too seriously;
chances are yer the biggest joke in the universe.
Pippin Park_Forest
2014-11-28 02:19:00 UTC
Permalink
In early '68, we were cleaning out some buildings at Quy Nhon that had
been occupied by JAG; I found a transcript of a general court martial
from 1967; over the next few days, I read the factual account of the
murder of a Vietnamese civilian woman in what would become known as
"the incident on hill 192" and later rewritten into a fictional movie
titled "Casualties of War"..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_on_Hill_192
The Wiki page quotes heavily from the book: *Judge Advocates in
Vietnam: Army Lawyers in Southeast Asia, 1959-1975* (Borch, F.; 2003);
actually, the entire article is a simple copy & paste.
The event described in the book must have been derived from the movie
because it bears no resemblance to the facts of the case. The events
happened near My Tho in Binh Dinh province about 10 miles south of
what would later become LZ English. The immediate area is a heavily
populated agricultural valley. The book's account has the soldiers
kidnapping a woman from the village by force, tying her hands, and
proceeding to take her on a combat patrol for their sexual pleasure
over the next week or so. Borch obviously did not know the area and
didn't know what a combat patrol was.
A combat patrol leaving the My Tho area would not have departed on
foot. While the area was by no means safe, it was a heavily populated
rear area; the patrol would have been transported by ground vehicle or
helicopter into the general vicinity of their area of operation. The
immediate area was secured by ARVN forces. Even if they had departed
on foot, a five-man patrol leading a Vietnamese woman with her hands
tied would immediately have attracted a great deal of attention.
Borch's account (and the movie) has the soldiers executing the female
captive during an enemy engagement because they feared the enemy would
see the captive and report them; this account is patently absurd.
What actually happened was that the men were on guard duty in base
camp on 18 Nov 1966. They contracted for sexual services from a local
woman who came to their guard position by motorcycle that evening.
For whatever reason, they ended up killing the woman by blunt trauma;
she was neither shot nor stabbed as recorded in the Hollywood
depiction of the event. The next day, the woman was reported missing
to the local authorities by her acquaintances and/or family who knew
where she had gone; a subsequent search quickly located her body near
the soldiers' guard position.
The soldiers were placed under arrest and the pretrial investigation
proceeded from that point; the incident had stirred up quite a bit of
civil involvement by the Vietnamese authorities. No doubt, the First
Cavalry would have liked for the matter to have blown over; however,
that wasn't about to happen. The article 32 investigation was
concluded on 22 Jan 1968 which was about two months after the event;
this time line is perfectly consistent with any civilian grand jury
proceeding in a capital case. The trial was convened in Long Binh and
the men were convicted on 19 April 1968, five months to the day after
the woman's body was discovered. Since JAG was asking for the death
penalty, there is absolutely nothing unusual about such an
investigation and trial taking five months; actually, that's a fairly
short time period.
< QUOTE >
Pfc. Storeby initially reported the crime. At first, the chain of
command, including the company commander, took no action. Despite
threats against his life by the soldiers who took part in the rape and
murder, Storeby was determined to see the soldiers punished. His
persistence in reporting the crime to higher authorities eventually
resulted in general courts-martial against his four fellow squad
mates.
< /QUOTE >
Both the book and the movie (from which the book was obviously
derived) depict a deliberate and protracted cover-up attempt during
which time Pfc. Storeby fought valiantly for justice in the face of
death threats and attempts on his life. The fact is that Pfc. Storeby
was implicated in the crime; however, he turned "state's evidence"
quickly, thereby receiving only a special court martial. The
investigation and prosecution moved as quickly as any ever do; five
months from commission to conviction is an almost amazingly short time
line.
I was never in Nam.
--
--======[[[[HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH>
Don Stockbauer, Fran and Ollie
2014-11-28 03:05:43 UTC
Permalink
If you're a teenager now, "Colonel", how the fuck did you serve in Vietnam?
Col. Edmund Burke
2014-11-28 16:15:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Stockbauer, Fran and Ollie
If you're a teenager now, "Colonel", how the fuck did you serve in Vietnam?
I'm in my 70's, you foolish fool, having served an illustrious career in
Nam.
b***@gmail.com
2015-10-25 00:07:44 UTC
Permalink
The war diary may be what you remember but it is incorrect in several details. The 1966 incident at hill 192, and the courage shown by p f c storeby is not in doubt. The young woman was abducted, not a prostitute. The later actions of the convicted including murder of us naval serving enlisted members from the Saratoga in 92, don't assuage their guilt.
Shitstink McLanahan
2015-10-25 00:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
The war diary may be what you remember but it is incorrect in several
details. The 1966 incident at hill 192, and the courage shown by p f c
storeby is not in doubt. The young woman was abducted, not a
prostitute. The later actions of the convicted including murder of us
naval serving enlisted members from the Saratoga in 92, don't assuage
their guilt.
do you like little boys?

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